Earth Elemental, why is it still useless?


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This topic contains 10 replies, has 6 voices, and was last updated by  russellm 1 day, 8 hours ago.

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  • #1491

    Obara
    Shaman-in-training

    Since the Earth Elemental does 5 time more damage and lasts for 4 times longer, how is it that it’s still useless? Shouldn’t it do enough damage that it’s worth spending one global CD on it? Other than the one GCD there is no other drawback to it is there?

    If nothing else I assume that you could always pop it during a movement period if you lack another instant to cast?

    #1492

    russellm
    Shaman-in-training

    personally, I have found it very useful in Mythic+’s (where i spend most of my time). It has often saved us from a wipe (tank dies) and also provides a stun when used. Having it last longer should make it even more useful in that environment.

    Russell
    AKA Crispym-frostmane

    #1493

    rokksteady
    Shaman-in-training

    I have to disagree with you there Obara. It’s not supposed to be used for a dps increase. It’s there as an emergency button for a tank going down or dipping. I still keep it on my bars and has saved my group on many mythic+ runs. Raid bosses that don’t move will also target it in some situations. (Ex: Helya, who attacks the highest threat enemy in melee range)

    Sure, you won’t use it every fight or even most fights, but when you need it it’s great to have.

    #1502

    Obara
    Shaman-in-training

    Of course that’s what it’s supposed to be used for, there is no argument there. But since people tend to try and squeeze every little big of DPS out if the abilities it just seemed from the buff to it’s damage that spending just 1 GCD on it would still mean a DPS increase. But I suppose the sims say othewise. It just seems intuitively that it ought to do more DPS than a single unbuffed Lightning Bolt. I guess I’ll have to try it out and see how much damage it actually does during that minute.

    #1506

    Silverhand
    Shaman-in-training

    I agree, I use it too on every CD. Seems like a waste otherwise and I can’t imagine anything bad in doing so. 🙂
    It’s not not that our tanks have problems generating aggro and I’m inconveniencing them.

    Unless I’m wrong and mathematically the used GCD is a dps-loss. 😉

    #1512

    rokksteady
    Shaman-in-training

    Well I can’t find the spell in either Simc or the AMR sim tool, so I can’t sim the difference. It may indeed be a dps increase now, though still small. I’m going to do some really shady napkin math and see if I can work it out:

    For my character, the attack power would be 9238, which at 3.5 DPS per 1 AP is 2,639 DPS over the 1 minute it is up. (It’s worth noting that I’m not sure that AP to DPS conversation is still accurate for players, or if it applies the same to the elemental). Since it is up 1/5 the time, we get ~528 DPS out of it, more for a fight shorter than 5 minutes. My GCD is 1.18 seconds.

    Lightning bolt is 160% of spellpower and a 1.57 second cast. For my character, the average LB hits for 125,000 (including crits and overloads) and generates 11.5 maelstrom (including overloads).

    Over that same 5 minute fight that’s ~417 DPS from one lightning bolt cast (DPS calculation does not include DPS gain from maelstrom)

    So it’s ~.5 second cast time difference because of the GCS, although the advantage of instant cast can’t be ignored.

    Personally, I don’t think that makes it worth it. It eeks out 100 more dps if you don’t include the maelstrom, which I’m inclined to believe actually pushes a plain lightning bolt ahead. Additionally, it can cause problems for tanks on adds fight where positioning is important, and there is a posibility you may need it in the fight and won’t have it.

    I can’t give a more concrete answer until the elemental is included in the sims, but that should be enough information for you to make an informed decision.

    #1516

    fhnhf
    Shaman-in-training

    I checked earth ele in a dungeon today. It contributed 210k dmg over its full duration without primal. That will make it worth it on any boss that doesnt have precision add management as long as it is replacing a non buffed lightning bolt and not getting in fire eles way.

    #1518

    rokksteady
    Shaman-in-training

    @fhnhf

    How are you valuing maelstrom to make that determination? Ultimately in your parse, it contributed 85k more raw damage than a lightning bolt would have. I’m inclined to believe 11.5 maelstrom is worth more than 85k damage.

    #1555

    shammamain
    Shaman-in-training

    so, you can have the two of them out at the same time. Since this is the case there would be no problem with using Earth ele at prepull timer of like 5 and then fire totem at prepull timer of 3. Lust and pots and all of that stuff stack with elementals so it would be a bit of dmg for you at the cost of 0 gcd’s.

    #1558

    shammamain
    Shaman-in-training

    so, I tested out using Earth Ele on the pull in a random pug. Earth taunted as soon as I dropped him. Not a good idea haha

    #1594

    russellm
    Shaman-in-training

    yea…. earth elemental (with its 1 minute timer) becomes a taunting machine in Mythics now! It becomes very situational or you will find yourself pulling a lot of crap you did not want 🙂

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